tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post9084139370601350410..comments2023-09-23T11:16:00.352+02:00Comments on The Franco-American Flophouse has moved: Citizenship - Who Decides?Victoria FERAUGEhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-38737987214054151002013-01-10T00:25:07.154+01:002013-01-10T00:25:07.154+01:00@lymphomajourney, that must have been a fascinatin...@lymphomajourney, that must have been a fascinating job. I have often wondered who exactly is responsible in government for considering such things. What is fascinating is how all these laws intersect to create some very complex situations. Right now I'm reading a Master's thesis which examines citizenship theory to see if it could be helpful for the security community in the US. The author describes scenarios I've never thought of. It's called DENATIONALIZED CITIZENSHIP THEORY: <br />WHAT IS THE ROLE OF CITIZENSHIP THEORY IN <br />HOMELAND SECURITY? by Cherie A. Lombardi. I will do a post ion it and I would love to have your and other Flophouse readers' take on it as well.Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-20656566999886939432013-01-09T23:59:05.126+01:002013-01-09T23:59:05.126+01:00As a former citizenship policy maker, your post an...As a former citizenship policy maker, your post and the thoughtful comments underline the importance of understanding one's particular citizenship issues and the implications it may or may not have for where your children are born.<br /><br />Many governments struggle with citizenship policy, in particular the balance between citizenship being meaningful (i.e., not just legal) and facilitating acquiring citizenship (particularly immigrant-based countries like US, Canada, Australia, NZ).<br /><br />Given the 'messiness' of peoples lives, and our increasing global movements, finding that balance remains challenging to say the least.<br /><br />Good discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-876095467187498032013-01-09T17:09:03.834+01:002013-01-09T17:09:03.834+01:00@Tim Hi Tim, I can understand how frustrating gett...@Tim Hi Tim, I can understand how frustrating getting your taxes done as an American must be. The justification for forcing Americans to file a US return is the fact that we as Tax Prepares are required to file "a complete and accurate return". In this case completeness requires that we file a US return for Americans or Green card holders in Canada. <br /><br />As much as I would love to see the Canadian Government tell the Americans where they can shove their extraterritorial legislation, the current Canadian Government is more than happy to allow the Americans to tax Canadians, even as they take steps to stop the Eritrean embassy from collecting taxes from its citizens. <br /><br />Think of it from another viewpoint. How would you feel if I didn't make you an American client file a US return and a few years later the Americans catch up to him and require him to pay back penalties? Filling now saves a lot of hassle and headache later, and (plus for the company) our work is guaranteed to be accurate, or we pay any penalty incurred.<br /><br />I am not familiar with the legislation you are citing, but I would LOVE to see somebody sue to make this sillyness stop :)Jordannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-47834214878901692732013-01-09T08:25:02.560+01:002013-01-09T08:25:02.560+01:00@Eric, Thanks for the info about South Korea. And...@Eric, Thanks for the info about South Korea. And for nothing that countries fellow a much better principle which involves consent before one can be said to be a citizen/national. What is ironic here is that there are long-term residents in the US (the DREAMers) who are having to struggle to stay in the US and to have the right to ask for citizenship. Boggles the mind.<br /><br />@Tim, Have to agree with you. Much of the literature is about resolving the conflicts associated with the "evils" of dual citizenship. I'm going to check out that Hague Convention. Military service is another area where citizenship comes into play in an important way.<br /><br />@Jordan - What I understand is that they only way to get out of US citizenship is to renounce. It's basically an automatic "opt in" system where the default is citizenship. To get out of it you must "opt out" which is a cumbersome and unpleasant process. Costs money too. Most people never bother. <br /><br />Right now I am reading Patrick Weil's new book about "denaturalization" - the stripping of citizenship from people in the US in the 20th centuries. As you point out in a previous era Canada and many other countries had very different rules about the transmission of citizenship and keeping it.<br /><br />@greg, Before people were citizens, they were subjects. I see continuity here with the latter still influencing how we define membership in a political community. We are indeed "owned" to an extent that most of us never understand until we come straight up against the power of a state.Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-24040702073615872802013-01-09T06:46:52.244+01:002013-01-09T06:46:52.244+01:00Your article is indeed chilling. As an old guy now...Your article is indeed chilling. As an old guy now reflecting on the meaning of life and our true responsibilities for existing, your message is a very sad one for me. It seems that all of us have been deceived; we are all slaves to the State. We are owned the same as any other livestock. This is starting to be more understood by me as time goes on. I really want to be free, but maybe that will only happen when I pass on.greghttp://americanexpatchiangmai.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-89080903929431402582013-01-09T00:52:18.393+01:002013-01-09T00:52:18.393+01:00Jordan,
I am wondering what legal authority H&...Jordan,<br /><br />I am wondering what legal authority H&R Block Canada has to what they are doing under Canadian law. I suspect very little. I can't tell you how angry I got about what H&R Block Canada is doing. I think the CEO of H&R Block Canada should be locked up at the Kingston Ontario Penetentary for violations of the Canadian Foreign Extraterritorial Measures Act.<br /><br />Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894651289037073128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-70179442651080290272013-01-08T21:39:13.250+01:002013-01-08T21:39:13.250+01:00Reading this post reminds me of a few years back w...Reading this post reminds me of a few years back when the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative was created by the United States requiring passports to cross the border. Many border babies, Canadians who were born in the United States because the nearest hospital was in a border states like Michigan, Maine, or North Dakota were in for a rude awakening. In some cases mom and dad were also border babies (there are whole towns in Canada that are physically on the border), and some found that they were not Canadian Citizens, even though they had lived in Canada, and even voted for decades.<br /><br />I work at H&R Block in Canada and I suppose I am a bit like bankers will soon be. As soon as someone shows me a US passport, or a document that shows their birthplace in the United States I have to stop preparing their tax return and send it over to the US Tax Specialists, who charge an extra 2-3 hundred dollars, even when these people owe nothing in taxes. I have occasionally had people swear they will renounce before they will file, and I tell them they can't renounce until after they have filled. <br /><br />In Canada the conservative government recently changed our citizenship law so that the second generation born abroad are not Canadian Citizens, but this has problems too. Many Canadians were born elsewhere but grew up in Canada. There are examples of people who were born abroad to Canadian parents, came to live in Canada when they were a year old and happen to be living in Belgium when they have a child. In some cases these people's children are now born stateless. These are the cases where some show of attachment should come into play. Its a nightmare for these parents. While the new law allows for easy naturalization of these babies, they first have to physically arrive in Canada which is difficult when the child is stateless and qualified for no national passport. Then these parents have to wait for their children's files to be procsses. Currently there is an enormous backlog and it can take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years to process a citizenship request. <br /><br />In the example of the french women born in the states, should there be some mechanism to remove citizenship from those who dont use it? In the Netherlands (and I think) Denmark if you live abroad for more than 20 years you could potentially loose your citizenship. In Canada we have the problem of "Lost Canadians", previous versions of the Act viewed women and minor children as the property of their husband/father, and when the father naturalized in another country the children lost their citizenship. This was the case even when the father had effectively abandoned the family and moved to the United States. <br /><br />Myself I am actually okay with citizenship passing to grandchildren. Ireland does this, as does Italy. I am hoping that if the referendum in Scotland is successful Alex Salmond will adopt an Irish style citizenship law for Scotland, which would allow me to claim my Scottishness (via my Glasgownian Grandmother).Jordannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-81948520935194511032013-01-08T16:27:50.508+01:002013-01-08T16:27:50.508+01:00I believe there is another Hague Convention regard...I believe there is another Hague Convention regard military service in the case of dual nationality that most developed nations(the US, France, Canada, UK, Germany etc) are parties to but which very few developing are.<br /><br />I tend to get very angry and upset when studying this area of law. The views of the scholars in it in my opinion are very poor. Most of the criticism for example of dual nationality in the Canadian and American context is really thinly disguised anti immigrant sentiment.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894651289037073128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-22911408337655328702013-01-08T14:10:53.102+01:002013-01-08T14:10:53.102+01:00South Korea nowadays actually has fairly reasonabl...South Korea nowadays actually has <a href="http://www.mma.go.kr/eng/s_notice/notice/1211661_2577.html" rel="nofollow">fairly reasonable rules about conscription</a>: if you were born abroad to genuine emigrants, or you left the country at a young age, you can file for an exemption. It's an annoying bureaucratic hurdle, but it only has to be done once, and then you can go back for visits or short-term study or anything else short of actually working there. And most surprisingly: the government manages to maintain these reasonable rules in the face of massive public anger at people who are gaming the system to avoid conscription (the prototypical example being <a href="http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/html/997/2942997.html" rel="nofollow">rapper Yoo Seung-jun</a>).<br /><br />A more civilised principle that at least a few countries follow is that nationality requires the consent of the individual, especially where the child's situation has an international aspect. Chile, for example, gives locally-born children of "extranjeros transeuntes" <a href="http://www.extranjeria.gov.cl/opcion_nacionalid.html" rel="nofollow">the option but not the obligation</a> to apply for citizenship. <a href="http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/reference/legislative/legislative_background_to_irish_citizenship.html" rel="nofollow">Irish nationality law</a> has the concept of people who are "entitled to be" Irish citizens but do not actually become so except by doing "any act that only an Irish citizen is entitled to do", like applying for an Irish passport or running in an Irish election. And many states say that children of citizens born abroad are only citizens themselves if they actively declare their desire for citizenship to the consulate.<br /><br />Maybe this will one day be an international norm, but in the meantime states which would like to squeeze military service or money out of their diaspora will likely continue to attribute nationality without choice, as an act of aggression.Erichttp://notlearningcantonese.posterous.comnoreply@blogger.com