tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post8207336490873573873..comments2023-09-23T11:16:00.352+02:00Comments on The Franco-American Flophouse has moved: Want to Renounce? Join the Queue....Victoria FERAUGEhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-4431484346235173092016-03-02T14:48:24.323+01:002016-03-02T14:48:24.323+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-61336969637888232622014-08-31T01:55:09.944+02:002014-08-31T01:55:09.944+02:00Glad I expatriated when I did. Should have done it...Glad I expatriated when I did. Should have done it sooner. Wish I hadn't remained a US citizen, and delayed taking citizenship where I live because for decades, both countries forced me to give up one or refrain from the other. Should not have tried to keep what was a symbolic and largely sentimental status of birthplace - which has turned out to be a significant threat to the wellbeing and security of my non-US family and myself.<br /><br />So sorry that I tried to retain my birthright and connection. <br /><br />The US didn't deserve my loyalty or my emotional attachment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-24293340557275729602014-08-26T01:31:00.755+02:002014-08-26T01:31:00.755+02:00I'd be curious to see the renunciation rate co...I'd be curious to see the renunciation rate country by country. Wouldn't that be fascinating? Catherinehttp://www.facingcancer.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-58284636904793992472014-08-25T13:29:37.401+02:002014-08-25T13:29:37.401+02:00@ Kirk,
The key word is “potentially” relinquishi...@ Kirk,<br /><br />The key word is “potentially” relinquishing act. If depends on if the person has the intention of relinquishing US citizenship by performing the act or not. <br /><br />Eg, if a person naturalises in a foreign country, they can do so with the intent of simultaneously terminating their US citizenship or they can do so with the intent of retaining their US citizenship and being a dual citizen. The administrative presumption for the past approx 30 years is that the person had the intention to retain US citizenship. It’s a rebuttable presumption, though. <br /><br />Intent, being in a person's mind, generally can’t be proven, only inferred. So if a person is applying for a Certificate of Loss of Nationality based on a past relinquishing act, the answers on one’s form DS-4079 questionnaire (do you vote in the US, what passport do you use, etc …) can illustrate the person’s intent from their behaviour after the date on which they claim to have relinquished. There are also questions such as did you perform the act with the intent to relinquish; if so, please explain, etc. (If a person is planning to naturalise – or perform any potentially relinquishing act – in the near future, they could also prepare a statement in advance, stating that they will be performing such act with the intent of relinquishing their US citizenship, and submit that statement with the CLN application as well.)<br /><br />I used the example of naturalising. There are several other potentially relinquishing acts. Potentially relinquishing acts and the requisite conditions for them to be effective are listed in Immigration and Nationality Act, s. 349(a). <br />http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481<br /> <br />DS-4079. Request for Determination of Possible Loss of US Citizenship.<br />http://eforms.state.gov/editdocument.aspx?documentid=240&from=2&categoryid=1&form_format=3&Width=1270Pacificahttp://isaacbrocksociety.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-72036258272241124232014-08-25T13:05:54.006+02:002014-08-25T13:05:54.006+02:00@Kirk, getting naturalized in another state used t...@Kirk, getting naturalized in another state used to be an expatriating act that got you stripped of US citizenship. That changed in the 1990's and now it's only potentially expatriating. <br /><br />It's all about "intent". A US cit can take on another citizenship with the intention of becoming a dual OR with the intention to give up US citizenship. If you do the latter then you have to be careful. You cannot, for example, become a citizen of Spain, renew your US passport, vote in US elections and then turn around and say, "I never intended to keep my US citizenship." Your actions, they will say, prove that your intent was to be dual. In that case you cannot relinquish, you must renounce.<br /><br />But if you take on, say, Korean citizenship then you march down to the US consulate right away and document your intent: "I became Korean with the intent to give up US citizenship" that will get you your CLN tout de suite. <br /><br />In between those two cases are the hard cases. Let's say you believed that you lost your US citizenship years ago and now you see FATCA on the horizon and you want it documented that you are NOT a US citizen. There's a form to file: DS 4079. Request for determination of possible loss of US citizenship and that is where you make your case.<br /><br />I seem to recall on Brock seeing at least one where the individual did renew a US passport after taking on another citizenship but nonetheless was given a determination that he relinquished and he was given his CLN.<br /><br />Any Brockers in the hall who can confirm that?Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-57704009660371549102014-08-25T12:16:51.456+02:002014-08-25T12:16:51.456+02:00About relinquishment; US citizens have been allowe...About relinquishment; US citizens have been allowed to have dual nationality for decades. I have it, and the US has no problem with it. Why is this act now considered to be a potential relinquishing act?<br /><br />Kirk (who is now looking for a way to become a non-American)Kirknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-27170112060755426912014-08-25T02:08:48.521+02:002014-08-25T02:08:48.521+02:00Get your CLN now before the price goes up 500%.
...Get your CLN now before the price goes up 500%. <br /><br />Uncle Sam is so desperate to grab expats' money he's stooped to the level of CLN scalping. <br /><br />Such a sorry state of affairs. America's founders are rolling in their graves. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-24364400518346213172014-08-24T23:18:33.365+02:002014-08-24T23:18:33.365+02:00this is one of the services we get with the tax mo...this is one of the services we get with the tax money<br /><br />CATCH 22Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07968342557143521132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-51084731828158691182014-08-24T20:03:52.027+02:002014-08-24T20:03:52.027+02:00Interesting. I find it funny that it is so hard an...Interesting. I find it funny that it is so hard and expensive to renounce citizenship. Why do they care, really?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-47942580503246673952014-08-24T19:43:47.345+02:002014-08-24T19:43:47.345+02:00@Rowan, you are absolutely right. Oh the irony! :...@Rowan, you are absolutely right. Oh the irony! :-)<br /><br />@Badger and Anonymous, <br />That is just inadmissible - utter bullcrap. Raising it to four figures? Just because people are exercising their right to expatriate under international law? No way. That simply cannot be allowed to happen.Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-69505810817624835882014-08-24T17:54:13.816+02:002014-08-24T17:54:13.816+02:00As Anonymous1 said above, reports on IBS from the ...As Anonymous1 said above, reports on IBS from the Vancouver and Calgary consulates that consular staff said the fee was about to go up. <br /><br />'Renounce now with this limited-time offer! (Some conditions may apply.)'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-4563445458639546252014-08-24T14:11:35.305+02:002014-08-24T14:11:35.305+02:00I had to laugh at the irony of the US gov't sp...I had to laugh at the irony of the US gov't spending so much in time and resources deporting undocumented <i>illegals in</i> the country but then so unwilling to let go of the undocumented <i>legals outside</i> the country. (I know you were making a different point, but a country that can't figure what its immigration policy is for illegal residents doesn't stand much of a chance resolving the complexities for emigration of legal nonresidents.)Rowan M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-53134623041947808062014-08-24T11:42:15.338+02:002014-08-24T11:42:15.338+02:00Very good point. Peter Spiro has talked about the...Very good point. Peter Spiro has talked about the possiblity of Secret Americans (put the passport in a drawer and forget about it) on Opinio Juris and one of his latest posts about it is well worth reading http://opiniojuris.org/2014/05/12/fatca-need-anti-passport/<br /><br />So how could this phenomenon be measured? What would be the indicators? Passports not renewed? Any ideas, anyone?<br /><br />Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-34691860092638187342014-08-24T10:37:29.761+02:002014-08-24T10:37:29.761+02:00Nice post. How about adding this:
There are two k...Nice post. How about adding this:<br /><br />There are two kinds of relinquishments.<br /><br />1. There are the relinquishments as defined by U.S. law in S. 349(a) of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act (whether documented or not). The view of the United States is that it has the right to determine one's citizenship.<br /><br />2. But, many people are practicing "citizenship self help". These people make the decision to have no further contact with the U.S. This is a much larger group. They have made the decision that they neither consider themselves to be nor will allow the anybody else to consider them to be U.S. citizens. In other words, they are just vanishing.<br /><br />Hardly a surprise when the most frightening question for a person living outside the United States today is:<br /><br />"Are you or have you even been a U.S. citizen?"<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />USCitizenAbroadhttp://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com