tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post5493077081691442827..comments2023-09-23T11:16:00.352+02:00Comments on The Franco-American Flophouse has moved: Perspectives on Compliance with Citizenship-Based TaxationVictoria FERAUGEhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-62622122559182812132012-11-19T09:12:28.913+01:002012-11-19T09:12:28.913+01:00@anonymous, I started reading the article and it ...@anonymous, I started reading the article and it is quite a find. I'll do a post on it soon. Thank you! I have excatly the same impression as you - if the French government could manage to implement a system like the American one, they would. And the French would be cheering them on.<br /><br />@Tim, I think more Americans (and Canadians and Australians and so on) qualify for citizenship in one of the many countries of the EU. Most have no idea. Jus sanguinis is alive and well but you'll notice that it's not well-advertised. I wonder why?<br /><br />Loved the news about DS. Yes, when I left they were still scattered around the US east coast in Charlotte and Lowell. I had teams there and have a lot of good memories of visiting them. The dream was to have a US campus and get everyone (solidworks and matrix one and nvidia and DS) under one roof like the one here in Velizy and it looks like they did it.<br /><br />Not sure about the hiring priocess but I do remember a lot of mobility within the company with folks from Japan coming to France and the French going to the US.<br /><br />@anonymous, Yep, that is indeed our reputation. And I'm not too sure we can do anything about it. Alas. Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-87714001984087827162012-11-14T19:08:25.521+01:002012-11-14T19:08:25.521+01:00I've been an expat on and off for more than 45...I've been an expat on and off for more than 45 years and haven't seen anything fundamental change. Citizen based taxation rests on the view - shared by lawmakers and US citizens alike - that those who choose to live abroad are practically traitors and should suffer for their choice. This is so primal that it obviates any advantages they bring and talk of being diplomats, etc, is pointless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-29305026576354615492012-11-10T22:52:46.644+01:002012-11-10T22:52:46.644+01:00A couple of more comments:
I talked specifically ...A couple of more comments:<br /><br />I talked specifically to someone who was a US citizen and had graduated from college back in 2007 from a major US university with a lot of foreign students. Generally when major companies came to recruit on campus like lets Dassault Systemes(who I know you are familar with) they generally wanted US citizens and green card holders for their positions at their US headquarters outside of Boston and EU nationals(attending as foreign students) for positions at their office in St. Cloud France. Very little opportunity if any if you were a sole citizen on one side of the Atlantic to move to other. Internships and coops were a little more flexible.<br /><br />Some American companies were open to trying to get EU national students H1-B's but generally ran into the low cap quite quickly.<br /><br />Interesting video interview with DS North American CEO on New England Cable news:<br /><br />http://www.necn.com/12/14/11/Dassault-Systemes-expands-to-Waltham-Mas/landing_business.html?blockID=612340<br /><br />http://www.necn.com/pages/landing_world?blockID=763695<br /><br />Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894651289037073128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-80950280268560161392012-11-10T22:25:07.467+01:002012-11-10T22:25:07.467+01:00A couple of thoughts after speaking to some people...A couple of thoughts after speaking to some people in the US on the issue. One is from the perspective of many homelander Americans its hard for them to see how they personally are effected by this in any negative way. Many do not ever think they will live outside the US. It is also(and I do agree with this)hard for many native born US citizens to actually more to another country. It is far far easier to move from one US state any foreign country to another than to move from the US to a foreign country . There is no country on earth other than Canada to a limited degree that gives US citizens immigration preference such as the EU countries give to each other. Since the recession and even before legal immigration to the US such as through the H1-B program is down sharply so native US citizens have less competition in the job market than they did perhaps ten years ago from H1-B's. Fewer jobs due to the recession though.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894651289037073128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-74098542641678038832012-11-08T13:41:58.698+01:002012-11-08T13:41:58.698+01:00Hello Victoria
I found this transcript from le Sen...Hello Victoria<br />I found this transcript from le Senat "Commission d'enquête sur l'évasion des capitaux et des actifs hors de France et ses incidences fiscales" rather fascinating. It gives you a good idea of how the French view some of the issues on citizenship based taxation, tax evasion, FATCA, etc.<br /><br />http://www.senat.fr/basile/visio.do?id=d136365-73652&idtable=d136365-73509_101|d136365-73652&_c=fatca&rch=ds&de=20111108&au=20121108&dp=1+an&radio=dp&aff=36365&tri=p&off=0&afd=ppr&afd=ppl&afd=pjl&afd=cvn<br /><br />I did not read all 1200 pages but did a quick search on "FATCA" and "Etats-Unis". It was amazing to read the words of the French contributors, who for the most part, are in great admiration of the American policies regarding taxation and tax evasion. <br /><br />It is useless to hope that the French would defend their citizens who also happen to have USA nationality.<br /><br />There are also a few fun comments. One concerns the predominance of the English language (page 435).<br /><br />There are a few "intervenants" who do understand the dangers of citzenship based taxation - see page 206 "alors même que nous observions une mobilité tout à fait classique au sein d’une économie ouverte, mobilité qu’il ne s’agissait pas d’empêcher"<br /><br />But generally speaking, those who testified seem to side with the Americans, or accept that it is inevitable page 553 ". De plus, nous savons bien que la mondialisation, les contrôles fiscaux et la finance sont<br />culturellement anglo-saxsons ; il est donc fort probable que le système américain va se généraliser." <br /><br />Some of the comments suggest a bit of jealously that the French cannot wield as much power as the Americans. They admit that if the French tried to pull off a FATCA, no one would lift a finger, they would just pull out of the French financial markets.<br /><br /><br /><br />I did not see anything regarding the costs of implementing FATCA (or an IGA) versus the benefits, but I only read a few paragraphs. It doesn't seem that any representatives of the French banking system nor French consumers participated. No one seems the least bit interested in the fact that it will be the ordinary French citizen - with no ties whatsoever to the USA - who will pay for the fancy reporting to the IRS via increased banking charges.<br /><br />I'm sure there are many more take aways, it is just a bit much to digest in one go!<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-36266701063416828742012-10-25T10:22:22.627+02:002012-10-25T10:22:22.627+02:00@Christophe, Good to see again. That is fascinat...@Christophe, Good to see again. That is fascinating. I had no idea. The net tightens! :-)<br /><br />@anonymous, Thank you so much for the comment because it really captures beautifully the disillusionment a lot of us are feeling. We don't agree that this is right and many of us feel so strongly about it that we are contemplating turning in our passports.<br /><br />@just me, That is absolutely BRILLIANT and I'm going to post it tomorrow. Thanks so much.Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-46785765583032149212012-10-25T02:29:35.765+02:002012-10-25T02:29:35.765+02:00Thought I would share this video (with an attempt ...Thought I would share this video (with an attempt at humor) which tells the tale of the American Expats plight. It is not long.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfWk6yRdwMoJust menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-35051745087085473972012-10-24T18:50:20.136+02:002012-10-24T18:50:20.136+02:00Bravo Victoria for a lovely post.
Let me please t...Bravo Victoria for a lovely post.<br /><br />Let me please tell my testimonial so everyone can see how "tax evading" had absolutely nothing to do with my sad and traumatic renunciation.<br />peace of mind, mental health, and marital problems.<br /><br />Having lived in the US as a child, I have instilled in my a fundamental sense of justice and fairness. Like all US kids i started every morning saying the pledge of allegiance 'with liberty and justice for ALL". This whole situation is breathtakingly unjust and completely unfair. I found myself feeling emotions and living situations that only refugees from authoritarian countries normally experience. Coming from my own (birth) country, "the land of the free", I found the injustice even more staggering. I absolutely cannot get past the basic human unfairness factor and that is the bottom line which made me take the big step and return my passport to the embassy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-37384467712695394152012-10-24T16:18:00.390+02:002012-10-24T16:18:00.390+02:00Hi Victoria,
I hope you're doing well.
You sa...Hi Victoria,<br /><br />I hope you're doing well.<br />You said in one of your comments:<br />"how about making it a requirement that ALL Americans in the homeland report theirs too? That would be fair, right? :-)"<br />Don't worry, this is coming. Not as extensively as on a FBAR form, but regulators make brokers collect this type of information from their customers. Yesterday, my wife and I had a meeting with the investment firm where she hold a small retirement fund. She had not contributed/get in touch with them since we got married. They set up a meeting to get all the information they were missing regarding net worth, debt, etc. They said they're required by regulators to get this type of info, and if we refused, her account would likely be closed.<br />The purpose of the meeting was to acquire that info, the guy even refused to provide simple financial advice without getting paid. Well, we're closing the account and moving to a friendlier firm...Christophenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-43067398810414264702012-10-24T07:21:29.638+02:002012-10-24T07:21:29.638+02:00@Just Me, The WSJ article was really fine and you...@Just Me, The WSJ article was really fine and your and Roger's comments were on the money. The nice thing about the very negative (and sometimes pretty ignorant) comments is that helps us to see what the objections to our position are. At least that's what I tell myself after I read a few "you are all tax evaders!" comments and my blood pressure rises to a dangerous level. And thanks so much for sharing the note from Andy's colleague. He's right and analogies work!<br /><br />Celtat22, Thank you and that's a very good point about the elections. <br /><br />@StillAmerican, I love your user name. :-) I can tell you that there are folks here in France who are feeling the same thing. It is a nightmare for so many. Oh the conversations I'm having to have with my French husband these days because he is collateral damage in all this. It make me so damn sad for us, our families and for the US. Courage! And yes you are absolutely correct we need to join ACA and AARO. Good organizations and I'm a member of both. <br /><br />@Barbara Lowenstein, Thank you so much for sharing your experience about being an ambassador. Yes, the folks back in the US miss this one but it's true. I live in a place where Americans are not necessarily loved (is that true in Brazil as well?) But whatever their feelings about the US people in our host countries will often give a hearing because we are their colleagues, friends, wives, husbands, mother-in-law and so on. And as you pointed out it is not necessarily what we say so much as what we do and how we behave. I really liked how you put it, "We represent our country every single day, and how we talk to people, how we deal with daily situations, how we comport ourselves, whether and how well we learn another's language is all part of our being informal, but important, delegates to the world." <br /><br />@Shadow Raider, That is absolutely BRILLIANT!<br /><br />@M3nac3r, Absolutely! Americans abroad tend to be very quiet but time for that has passed. If we don't raise our voices and insist on being heard we are not only going to lose this one but all the future battles as well. Time to raise our voices and get heard even if we do have terrible representation.<br /><br />@bubblebustin, Good to see you here and thanks for the comment. Yes, the nearly 2000 renunciants are indeed the canaries in the coal mine. Wonder what 2012 will bring?<br /><br />@calgary411, So wonderful to hear from you. Thank you for your comment and my deep appreciation to all the U.S. persons in Canada who are working so hard to fight this. You folks are on the front lines and very close to the heart of the problem. You folks have a lot of courage and you have my respect and admiration. <br /><br />@Tim, Thanks for the link. I wrote to McDermott (he's my rep in Seattle) and have yet to receive an answer. I've decided that if I don't hear from him I'm going to write again and again and again. I call this the "Just Me" method. :-)<br /><br />@anonymous, You may be right. My starting position is that they aren't that bright :-) But I could be wrong. It's been many many years since I've read 1984 but I will take your advice and read it again. Will give me a good reason to head down to the American library.Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-14694682770518329942012-10-24T06:11:03.903+02:002012-10-24T06:11:03.903+02:00Victoria,
I'm sorry to inform you, but despit...Victoria,<br /><br />I'm sorry to inform you, but despite your ruminations, you just don't get it. US tax law is not about collecting taxes. It is about an inquisitorial gov't controlling the population. It's about currency controls and keeping people compliant out of fear. The divide it's creating between US residents and expats is jsut a side benefit. As you pointed out (probably the only thing you said that is cogent), it's only one of many ways they divide and conquer. <br /><br />To your comment: "The way it stands right now nobody is going to win this one."<br /><br />Clearly, Big Brother is winning. Might I suggest you read 1984?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-80305461227715603972012-10-24T05:17:25.763+02:002012-10-24T05:17:25.763+02:00Dave Reichert of WA-8 has now gone public with his...Dave Reichert of WA-8 has now gone public with his concerns over FATCA. Press release on his website:<br /><br />http://reichert.house.gov/press-release/rep-reichert-demands-answers-fatca-implementation-irs-commissioner<br /><br />As an aside Jim McDermott is also a member of the House Ways and Means Committee too.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894651289037073128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-78898330572081594982012-10-24T00:12:24.249+02:002012-10-24T00:12:24.249+02:00Hello Victoria,
I hope this finds you well.
I ...Hello Victoria,<br /><br />I hope this finds you well. <br /><br />I continue to be amazed with all you do and want to congratulate you on this, your latest effort. You so well express the divide in the perceptions of the Americans Abroad of whatever description, and most of those within the bounds of continental USA on what our US responsibilities are due to the accidents of our birth.<br /><br />I can't add to anything others have so well already said, but want to give you my appreciation, my admiration and my respect for all you do.<br /><br />Be well! Thanks, Victoria.calgary411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-38494350891040034052012-10-23T22:41:40.230+02:002012-10-23T22:41:40.230+02:00"No country can live in isolation". The ..."No country can live in isolation". The alienation of its own citizens brings the US closer to its demise. 1780+ canaries last year aren't enough of a warning that the US's policies are toxic, it's much less thought consuming to blame the victim in this case.bubblebustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01789474207408205280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-53892589991720331212012-10-23T22:25:37.755+02:002012-10-23T22:25:37.755+02:00Well stated Ms. Victoria and the rest of you fello...Well stated Ms. Victoria and the rest of you fellow expats. Keep writing. Keep shouting. We are going to have to get a lot louder to be taken seriously.M3nac3rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041905032366167346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-55707858102639313022012-10-23T21:17:10.017+02:002012-10-23T21:17:10.017+02:00Let´s join AARO and ACA!Let´s join AARO and ACA!StillAmericannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-81154166330788663922012-10-23T21:14:26.435+02:002012-10-23T21:14:26.435+02:00Americans Abroad should be members of AARO and ACA...Americans Abroad should be members of AARO and ACA. Let´s support them!StillAmericannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-44951771686703695042012-10-23T19:16:59.897+02:002012-10-23T19:16:59.897+02:00Victoria, you asked "So what are we all willi...Victoria, you asked "So what are we all willing to do to fix it? Does anyone these days (at home or abroad) even care enough to try or is this a lost cause?"<br /><br />Perhaps you haven't read about my latest progress <a href="http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/07/23/shadow-raider-is-rewriting-the-united-state-internal-revenue-code/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Shadow Raidernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-90450928678298654112012-10-23T18:40:18.667+02:002012-10-23T18:40:18.667+02:00Victoria,
I truly appreciated your thoughtful pie...Victoria, <br />I truly appreciated your thoughtful piece, and agree with you wholeheartedly. While the IRS uses FATCA to throw an absurdly unfair net, catching mostly law-abiding and tax-paying American expats, my husband and I wait with great trepidation to see what the Brazilian banking community plans to do. (We're both Americans, and we retired to Brazil ten years ago.) Our sense is that Brazilian banks will refuse to comply with FATCA and instead close down the accounts of their American clients. How we will be able to conduct a life without banking services in this global world we cannot say. We have joined many, many expats here and elsewhere in suffering sleepless nights.<br /><br />I was particularly struck by your discussion of how important American expats are to America as good-will ambassadors. This is a side of our presence in other countries that is completely ignored by the homelanders, as you call them. I've more than once found myself trying to explain this or that U.S. policy to a respectful (but skeptical) audience. We represent our country every single day, and how we talk to people, how we deal with daily situations, how we comport ourselves, whether and how well we learn another's language is all part of our being informal, but important, delegates to the world.<br /><br />I don't see citizenship-based taxation ending in my lifetime. I can only hope that FATCA will be amended to exempt Americans residing abroad, while they concentrate on stateside Americans just hiding money abroad. That was their big fish target in the first place. They should stick to it.barbara lowensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14096605954965797638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-50996059755944955502012-10-23T17:47:23.052+02:002012-10-23T17:47:23.052+02:00Victoria,
I sent your blog post to a good friend ...Victoria,<br /><br />I sent your blog post to a good friend who has been very much involved in the issues of Americans Abroad for years. He was a good friend with Andy Sundberg who has been removed from the battle field by the effects of entropy, my choice for a way of describing our inevitable passing without using the D word. I thought I would share what he sent back to me.<br /><br />It illustrates what we have learned back here on the home front: We simply have to keep coming up with analogies that homelanders can "get". <br /> <br />For instance, the issue of trying to explain the "expatriation" feelings is fairly simple: Ask the person where his family came from to America originally. Ireland? Italy? Germany? Russia? Philippines? Everyone in America is an expat from their land of birth! So how would they feel if Ireland or Italy or Germany decided to start sending them forms to fill out even if they owed nothing? And how would they feel if they actually owed something? Would they feel obligated to pay? Remember, for some countries like Ireland and Italy, if they can show a paternal line in their family they have a right to dual citizenship upon application.<br /> <br />It is virtually impossible to explain what it is like being an American living overseas, or even the decision to do so. But we can ALL turn the tables by putting it in a context that Americans can understand. That's why I always use the moving from California with high income taxes to Nevada with no income tax, and asking them if they feel it is California's right to tax them if they now live in Nevada? <br /> <br />That's why I recently wrote that members of Congress simply won't respond to the equity, equality, or philosophical arguments about citizen- vs territorial-based taxation issue. They simply don't know enough about it, don't want to know enough about it, will never know about it, and it won't get them re-elected! JOBS at home get them elected - that has to be our messaging: Taxing Americans overseas costs jobs at home!<br /> <br /><br /><br />Just menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-44947843448342885862012-10-23T16:04:31.326+02:002012-10-23T16:04:31.326+02:00I am fortunate to have found you here. You express...I am fortunate to have found you here. You expressed so well my thoughts and feelings about being a dual citizen Brazil/USA living in working in Brazil after being in the USA 30 years. I have been under a lot of pressure, with sleepless nights, trying to comply with the US taxation and FBARs to the point of questioning if it is worth to remain an US citizen. This has been a nightmare for me and my family. I don´t beoieve Americans in the mainland know what we are going through. Thank you!StillAmericannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-57569830490420507592012-10-23T09:10:05.274+02:002012-10-23T09:10:05.274+02:00Good morning. Thanks for a pertinent and well wri...Good morning. Thanks for a pertinent and well written (as usual) message. How much money will have been spent on the presidential election compared to how much tax revenue could be collected from citizens abroad : I didn't do the math, and, granted, they are two different things, but I am sure that some of those who contribute thousands of dollars to the candidate who promises to represent their personal interests are also those that think the hard working Americans abroad should pay more in taxes. And what about the immigrants in the US? Have they abandoned their home country just because they live and work in the US? Probably not.celtat22noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-67455961999616903142012-10-23T08:42:27.017+02:002012-10-23T08:42:27.017+02:00Well... after such an eloquent post, and thoughtfu...Well... after such an eloquent post, and thoughtful comments there is nothing much more I can add of any significance. I just wanted to thank you for applying that chemo hampered brain to this lovely prose. I am in great admiration of how well you express these perspectives. <br /><br />I know you have been following the comments and new divide in the recent WSJ article. <br /><br />Wary Swiss Banks Shun Yanks<br />http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444592704578062570295543436.html<br /><br />I wished some of those that have contributed to the 500 plus comments would discover your blog. It might help bridge the divide.Just menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-16372752952844597172012-10-23T07:52:12.880+02:002012-10-23T07:52:12.880+02:00@Broken Man, Yes, I 'm with you. If it were ...@Broken Man, Yes, I 'm with you. If it were relatively simple to comply. If it did not require jumping through multiple hoops every year I might feel better about it. Or here's an idea: if Americans abroad must report all their local bank accounts, how about making it a requirement that ALL Americans in the homeland report theirs too? That would be fair, right? :-)<br /><br />@anonymous, Thank you for a very thoughtful comment. Yes, Americans have at different times in the nation's history retreated into isolationism. I don't really have an opinion about whether or not that would be a good idea right now but here's something I am 100% sure about: American big business won't allow a full retreat. They want to play in a globalized world. I agree with you completely about the immigration machine though I think there are signs that this is not working as well as it has in the past. Has nothing to do with the US and everything to do with "the rise of the rest." I just read a book by V. Wadwha that I plan to review today or tomorrow.<br /><br />@Tim, I honestly think ti works both ways. I was talking to my dearest friend here in France about this one day. He's a brilliant man - works for a high-tech firm here in France and speaks flawless English. He's never had the desire to live anything other than France. He just doesn't see why that would be interesting. We've talked about this at great length and clearly we don't understand each other (though he is kind enough to say that he is very glad that I moved to France :-) But I came to the conclusion that the fact that we do TRY to understand each other make all the difference. Empathy takes effort. Americans, as you point out, don't see why the exercise would be worth their time. I think that is a very dangerous (potentially deadly) flaw. The world changed and many Americans I talk to seem either oblivious or a bit shocked that the rest of the world is doing just fine or even better than the US. How did that happen? <br /><br />The US is a great nation but it has weaknesses, flaws. 200+ years is a blink in time. Just because it has done well up to now does not guarantee that it will do well in the future. What made it a magnet in times past may not hold true in the 21st century. I'm not even talking about decline - I'm talking about what's going on in the rest of the world independently of what the US does or does not do. Eva Hoffman put it so beautifully when she said that no place is now the center. I think that will continue and the fear that I have is not that the US will become isolationist but that the American people will misunderstand "the rise of the rest" and react with hostility and anger to a world they can no longer lead. This might lead to aggression against the rest of the world AND pit U.S. citizens in the homeland against each other.Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-12997051775638135632012-10-23T07:14:48.908+02:002012-10-23T07:14:48.908+02:00The one area of compliance many U.S. persons forge...The one area of compliance many U.S. persons forget about is phantom gains in USD.<br /><br />For example if you are paid in EUR, you need to record the exchange rate in USD the day you are paid, then when you spend this EUR you need to track the value of what you spent in USD to determine if you had a gain or a loss in USD.<br /><br />You also need to track any purchases that may be resold in the future, so if you purchased a house using EUR you need to determine the value of the EUR you paid in USD that day and when you sell the house you need determine the value in USD the day you receive payment to determine any gain or loss in USD, you could have a loss in EUR and still have a gain in USD.<br /><br />I renounced, that gave me the peace of mind I needed.<br /><br />Good luck, and I hope you are doing well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com