tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post2485336730686591831..comments2023-09-23T11:16:00.352+02:00Comments on The Franco-American Flophouse has moved: Feeling Better about the FBARVictoria FERAUGEhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-52209111194904725632012-06-22T00:57:52.039+02:002012-06-22T00:57:52.039+02:00Oh and I forgot to mention that the situation is e...Oh and I forgot to mention that the situation is even more dire for immigrants in the US. Failure to file this form (or even I think filing it incorrectly) can get a Green Card or US visa holder deported. Scary...Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-35670036082046018592012-06-22T00:51:14.606+02:002012-06-22T00:51:14.606+02:00Hi Loic, How are you doing?
The stress was reall...Hi Loic, How are you doing?<br /><br />The stress was really at the very beginning when I discovered (like so many others) that I had to file the form. I honestly had no idea until last year that this was a requirement and neither did millions of others. It wasn't until expatriates started being fined huge penalties and this hit the media that many of us became aware of the law. One US expat in Germany was reported to have been charged the full 50,000 USD fine which pretty much wiped out all her savings (even though she owed no US taxes). Marvin (Just Me) who comments here has a similar story.<br /><br />At that point millions of Americans expats became very VERY stressed. Ignorance of the law, remember, is not necessarily a valid excuse for the American "fisc".<br /><br />So many of us tried to get compliant and it was not so easy:<br /><br />1. It's not having accounts over 10,000 USD. It's having the sum total of ALL your accounts equalling a sum greater than that amount. So all accounts must be reported - even a 200 Euro child's saving account. The form also requires that you list the highest account balance for that year. So I had to ask the BNP for help getting this information going back 5 years. Took them some time. then I had find the average exchange rates over 5 years to convert all the amounts to US dollars and so on. What a mess and it took literally weeks of my time.<br /><br />2. Many of my accounts are joint and the US government requires that I list those accounts (and their balances too) which didn't make my French husband very happy. In fact, at first he refused saying that he wasn't an American citizen or Green Card holder and he was not about to let me turn over HIS information to the American government. I really didn't have any choice and so he finally agreed. I suppose now that we could always separate our accounts but hey, the cat is out of the bag, and today they pretty much know everything about his finances so not much point in doing that. <br /><br />3. Finally the 10,000 USD fine is not only for not filing at all. They can also charge you 10,000 USD for making a *mistake* on the form. Amazing.<br /><br />Have to agree with you about the US. Never saw so much bureaucracy in my life. Forms, disclaimers and so on. It IS pretty insane. But, you're right, has to be done. :-)<br /><br />VictoriaVictoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-81614565206863538942012-06-21T21:20:08.946+02:002012-06-21T21:20:08.946+02:00Hello Victoria.
I don't get something. Why n...Hello Victoria. <br /><br />I don't get something. Why not filing? Why is that such an issue a a stress source for you? It is stupid and pointless, sure, but it is just filing a stupid sheet of paper. <br /><br />Just so you know, we have exactly the same requirement in France. Except you can just write the accounts number on a sheet of paper and hand it back with your tax return. <br /><br />So we have to file FBAR in the US and the equivalent in France (but don't have 10k+ accounts in France, so nothing to declare in the US this year). <br /><br />I discovered that last year too. Never new before, so technically we have been illegal for 3 years (we are fixing it this year). The penalty for not filing is 10.000 euros PER ACCOUNT NOT DECLARED. <br />It is actually written on the 2042 form, a very small line at the bottom of page 4 that I never noticed before. <br /><br />Never heard of anybody getting busted for that but with the new craze on expatriates, you never know. Anyway, I gave them the list of account (wich is annoying because for a family, you have your account, your checking, your credit card, then the joint account, the joint checking, the joint card... We totalled 8 accounts between the 2 of us. <br /><br />I personnally find all this insane, but I don't really care. I just do it, nobody's going to read it anyway. <br /><br />BTW I'm always amazed at the delusion of americans that european countries are more "procédurières" than the US. <br /><br />I never filled more form than in the US. Everywhere. Massage: Form. Visa: Shitload of forms. Tax return: 38 pages (my french tax return is 8 pages). Dentist: Forms. Acupuncture: More forms. A pet joins the appartement: Tons of forms, at the shelter, for the city, for our leasing office. <br /><br />My wife once cut herself bad and had to go to the ER. Guess what: whe had to fill forms before getting stiched. <br /><br />It's insane, and probably one of the things I dislike most here.CarnetsdeSeattlehttp://www.carnetsdeseattle.frnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-2614417171157458762012-06-20T16:50:46.246+02:002012-06-20T16:50:46.246+02:00@Marvin, I'm with you. Not to mention that usi...@Marvin, I'm with you. Not to mention that using a site for "Financial Crimes" to file electronically just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth.<br /><br />@Broken Man, Oh I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the link. Yep, if the wrong people get their hands on that data this could be a real nightmare. And they will. <br /><br />@Christophe, LOL I'm sure that you are right and all the terrorists and drug dealers out there are, as we speak, dutifully filling out their FBARs in order to meet the June 30th deadline... :-)Victoria FERAUGEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319699673885400472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-31559905098155680592012-06-20T14:59:43.088+02:002012-06-20T14:59:43.088+02:00Even people on visas need to file it, not just gre...Even people on visas need to file it, not just green carders. It depends on the amount of time of the year that you stay in the US.<br />Yes, the "funny" thing about the FBAR is that it was initially designed to identify terrorist and money launderers. I am sure these people file it :-)<br />Filing forward was the easy thing to do. Choosing how to address the past is the hard part. I am still not sure I made the right decision of not doing anything. Morally, it's definetely not the right one, but the IRS does not make it easy. That's cruel.Christophenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-21192793829079804182012-06-20T13:20:45.786+02:002012-06-20T13:20:45.786+02:00The really scary downside of the FBAR is the poten...The really scary downside of the FBAR is the potential for identity theft. ACA has pointed this out in the past: <br /><br />" ... the threat of identity theft surrounding all of the information currently required in an overseas taxpayer’s tax return: Social Security number, birthdate, bank account numbers, bank addresses, highest maximum balance, personal investments, home address, signature, etc. These requirements are the identity theft criminal’s dream come true, all relevant information for one person in one convenient package."<br /><br />http://www.aca.ch/ACA%20recommendations%20for%20fundamental%20tax%20reform%20-%20eliminate%20citizenship-based%20taxation%20-%201.pdfA broken man on a Halifax piernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2424131704277823220.post-72358626008931429552012-06-20T09:58:47.047+02:002012-06-20T09:58:47.047+02:00Absolutely file the paper. Do NOT file electronica...Absolutely file the paper. Do NOT file electronically. If they want the useless reams of data, that as far as I can tell has not led to any cases of tax evasion convictions, (remember criminals don't file or tell on themselves) then make them do their own keying in! I am not going to collect and report the data and be their input clerk too! If they are that stupid to think all these millions of forms will help them with anything useful other than penalties for failure to file, they can just deal with opening the mail and paying a clerk to input the data themselves. :) Heaven knows Americans need jobs.Just Menoreply@blogger.com